Comments for Nutrioso, Arizona http://nutrioso.com/blog In the Footsteps of Leopold at the Foot of Escudilla Sat, 05 Nov 2011 15:15:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 Comment on The reality of cattle grazing by chediski http://nutrioso.com/blog/general/the-reality-of-cattle-grazing#comment-115 chediski Sat, 05 Nov 2011 15:15:54 +0000 http://nutrioso.com/blog/?p=486#comment-115 Thank you for your comment and we see the reality of the western landscape and the condition of our public lands very differently. I can’t claim to be a 4th generate Arizona…but am 2nd and have spent many vacations on public lands. As a child I only dreamed of the life you had as a member of a ranching family. I cherished the times we spent on our National Forests and saw livestock as part of the landscape. Yet, over the last few years, as I have seen and understood how livestock destroyed some of our public lands AND as I came to realize my tax dollars a subsidizing this, I have searched for a campsite free of cow dung and had to chase cattle away from me when hiking and camping. I have completely changed my views. I see this as my education to the reality of how damaging many of American dreams are to the planet. You can classify me as a radical if you choose, but that only widens the gaps between us. 1. The land has changed. A lot. Climate change, drought, invasive species, recreational pressures, economics, habitat destruction elsewhere are making our pubic lands the last best places. Severe overgrazing in the late 1800s changed the landscape in ways that are still influential and the land itself hasn't entirely recovered in some places. Check out lands near Las Cruces, Lordsburg, and Deming. Looks at some of the restoration taking place in southern Arizona. The equilibrium was unsettled then and continued disturbance keeps the ecosystems teetering on the threshold of collapse. 2. The law has changed. A lot. Environmental regulation increased as a result of better science and understanding and in response to the changes mentioned above. Lawsuits are only successful when they show a violation of the law, but it isn't the enviros creating the laws. The agencies, charged with understanding and applying the science of management, have had to shift from the old ways (which, in fact, weren't very sustainable) to new ways to manage the land. If livestock producers think this is extreme, it's only because it's different, and it bucks the old laissez faire style of the agency. I would refer you to the GAO report on grazing (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05869.pdf) and to http://www.mikehudak.com/Articles/CommercialLivestock000629.html. Thank you for your comment and we see the reality of the western landscape and the condition of our public lands very differently. I can’t claim to be a 4th generate Arizona…but am 2nd and have spent many vacations on public lands. As a child I only dreamed of the life you had as a member of a ranching family. I cherished the times we spent on our National Forests and saw livestock as part of the landscape.

Yet, over the last few years, as I have seen and understood how livestock destroyed some of our public lands AND as I came to realize my tax dollars a subsidizing this, I have searched for a campsite free of cow dung and had to chase cattle away from me when hiking and camping. I have completely changed my views. I see this as my education to the reality of how damaging many of American dreams are to the planet. You can classify me as a radical if you choose, but that only widens the gaps between us.

1. The land has changed. A lot. Climate change, drought, invasive species, recreational pressures, economics, habitat destruction elsewhere are making our pubic lands the last best places. Severe overgrazing in the late 1800s changed the landscape in ways that are still influential and the land itself hasn’t entirely recovered in some places. Check out lands near Las Cruces, Lordsburg, and Deming. Looks at some of the restoration taking place in southern Arizona. The equilibrium was unsettled then and continued disturbance keeps the ecosystems teetering on the threshold of collapse.

2. The law has changed. A lot. Environmental regulation increased as a result of better science and understanding and in response to the changes mentioned above. Lawsuits are only successful when they show a violation of the law, but it isn’t the enviros creating the laws. The agencies, charged with understanding and applying the science of management, have had to shift from the old ways (which, in fact, weren’t very sustainable) to new ways to manage the land. If livestock producers think this is extreme, it’s only because it’s different, and it bucks the old laissez faire style of the agency.

I would refer you to the GAO report on grazing (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05869.pdf) and to http://www.mikehudak.com/Articles/CommercialLivestock000629.html.

]]> Comment on The reality of cattle grazing by Joe D http://nutrioso.com/blog/general/the-reality-of-cattle-grazing#comment-114 Joe D Sat, 05 Nov 2011 05:54:42 +0000 http://nutrioso.com/blog/?p=486#comment-114 "Caught in the act of rustling Southwestern Willow Flycatchers by cattle" “Caught in the act of rustling Southwestern Willow Flycatchers by cattle”

]]> Comment on The reality of cattle grazing by W. Nichols http://nutrioso.com/blog/general/the-reality-of-cattle-grazing#comment-113 W. Nichols Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:44:25 +0000 http://nutrioso.com/blog/?p=486#comment-113 First off let me say thank you for your web site, and the work that goes into it. I follow it quite often, as a property owner in Nutrioso who is stuck in the Valley quite often due to work. I come from a ranching family and agree the YouTube video of the land that was be ranched was a wreck due to over grazing of the cattle in the area, and it is the exception not the rule. After following your comments and postings for quite some time I would venture to say you lean strongly on the environmentalist side of the issues. I appreciate your passion for the land and environment, but disagree with your positions on most of your postings. I do think some of your views bring up good points on the issues that should be looked at so we can have balance in our management, but our government has subscribed to the environmentalist point of view for too long now and our forest are showing the results. I am a fourth generation native to AZ, and my father worked the AZ land as did my grandfather, and great grandfather. They found balance to land management is the responsible path; not extremist views. You have environmental extremist who are completely out of touch with reality as you have others from the other side of the argument who are as well. My dad always taught me to take care of the land, so the land can take care of us, and to remember people first. We should do all we can to help protect endangered species, but not at the expense of humans. This fight will rage on and on from the extremists , and law suits will be filed, and at the end of the day we will all lose. Humans, wildlife, land, environment, and future generations will all lose in the end if we can’t figure out a way to balance our policy’s moving forward. First off let me say thank you for your web site, and the work that goes into it. I follow it quite often, as a property owner in Nutrioso who is stuck in the Valley quite often due to work. I come from a ranching family and agree the YouTube video of the land that was be ranched was a wreck due to over grazing of the cattle in the area, and it is the exception not the rule. After following your comments and postings for quite some time I would venture to say you lean strongly on the environmentalist side of the issues. I appreciate your passion for the land and environment, but disagree with your positions on most of your postings. I do think some of your views bring up good points on the issues that should be looked at so we can have balance in our management, but our government has subscribed to the environmentalist point of view for too long now and our forest are showing the results. I am a fourth generation native to AZ, and my father worked the AZ land as did my grandfather, and great grandfather. They found balance to land management is the responsible path; not extremist views. You have environmental extremist who are completely out of touch with reality as you have others from the other side of the argument who are as well. My dad always taught me to take care of the land, so the land can take care of us, and to remember people first. We should do all we can to help protect endangered species, but not at the expense of humans. This fight will rage on and on from the extremists , and law suits will be filed, and at the end of the day we will all lose. Humans, wildlife, land, environment, and future generations will all lose in the end if we can’t figure out a way to balance our policy’s moving forward.

]]> Comment on video of flood by mike O'Harra http://nutrioso.com/blog/general/video-of-flood#comment-112 mike O'Harra Sat, 06 Aug 2011 16:02:31 +0000 http://nutrioso.com/blog/?p=442#comment-112 Wow! Wow!

]]> Comment on August 5 Flood in Nutrioso by chediski http://nutrioso.com/blog/general/august-5-flood-in-nutrioso#comment-111 chediski Sat, 06 Aug 2011 12:45:07 +0000 http://nutrioso.com/blog/?p=444#comment-111 LOL Looks like a deer or an elk but it was really a stump. I thought the same thing when I saw it. LOL Looks like a deer or an elk but it was really a stump. I thought the same thing when I saw it.

]]> Comment on August 5 Flood in Nutrioso by Joe D http://nutrioso.com/blog/general/august-5-flood-in-nutrioso#comment-110 Joe D Sat, 06 Aug 2011 05:04:54 +0000 http://nutrioso.com/blog/?p=444#comment-110 Was that a deer being swept along or am I trippin ???????????? Was that a deer being swept along or am I trippin ????????????

]]> Comment on Forest Roads Open by Joe DiSilvestro http://nutrioso.com/blog/general/forest-roads-open#comment-106 Joe DiSilvestro Wed, 03 Aug 2011 22:36:10 +0000 http://nutrioso.com/blog/?p=434#comment-106 Thanks for the forest road update Thanks for the forest road update

]]> Comment on 2nd Cement Pour by chediski http://nutrioso.com/blog/general/2nd-cement-pour#comment-105 chediski Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:37:20 +0000 http://nutrioso.com/blog/?p=362#comment-105 I really wanted to have a better pattern, but I was challenged. We used the "rubber feet" and put vegetable oil on them to keep them from sticking. I really wanted to have a better pattern, but I was challenged. We used the “rubber feet” and put vegetable oil on them to keep them from sticking.

]]> Comment on 2nd Cement Pour by Janice Tracker http://nutrioso.com/blog/general/2nd-cement-pour#comment-104 Janice Tracker Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:31:01 +0000 http://nutrioso.com/blog/?p=362#comment-104 Love the track impressions. Wow you did an awesome job. Sweet. Can't wait to see it all for real. ~ JPtracker Love the track impressions. Wow you did an awesome job. Sweet. Can’t wait to see it all for real. ~ JPtracker

]]> Comment on Lack of Logging Isn’t To Blame in Massive Forest Fires by chediski http://nutrioso.com/blog/general/lack-of-logging-isn%e2%80%99t-to-blame-in-massive-forest-fires#comment-102 chediski Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:27:41 +0000 http://nutrioso.com/blog/?p=274#comment-102 First...this is not Russ but Billie who is posting most of this stuff. :-) I agree with part of what you say but not all. I will comment later when I have more time to reflect. In the mean time I would suggest reading some of the resources on salvage logging I have posted on the White Mountain Conservation site (azwmcl.org). Right now my focus is on protecting our land from flooding (we are on Hulsey Creek) and trying to get up a few photos for others to see. Thanks for your thoughtful comment. First…this is not Russ but Billie who is posting most of this stuff. :-) I agree with part of what you say but not all. I will comment later when I have more time to reflect. In the mean time I would suggest reading some of the resources on salvage logging I have posted on the White Mountain Conservation site (azwmcl.org).

Right now my focus is on protecting our land from flooding (we are on Hulsey Creek) and trying to get up a few photos for others to see.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment.

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